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- Path: news.express.co.nz!usenet
- From: bruce@faxmail.co.nz (Bruce Simpson)
- Newsgroups: comp.lang.java,comp.lang.c++,comp.sys.mac.oop.misc,comp.lang.basic.visual.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.windows.misc
- Subject: Re: java vs. multi-platf. frameworks ?
- Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 07:11:11 GMT
- Organization: FaxMail Technologies
- Message-ID: <4la66j$ifo@news.express.co.nz>
- References: <3171A3EA.3F27@dma.epfl.ch> <Dq0rq5.9sz@unify.com>
- Reply-To: bruce@faxmail.co.nz
- NNTP-Posting-Host: bsimpson.iprolink.co.nz
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-
- lee@Unify.com (Lee Crocker) wrote:
-
- >Sun's current attitude about AWT offers little hope. They seem to
- >think that they can achieve portability by making AWT a subset of the
- >functionality of existing GUIs; but that attitude is backwards. To be
- >truly portable, it must be a superset of existing GUIs, emulating those
- >functions specific to each on the others in a portable way, and letting
- >developers query the system for its capabilities in a portable way.
-
- This is a tricky one. Traditionally multi-platform systems have either
- gone the way of "largest common subset" or "emulated superset", both
- methods have their pro's and con's. I expect that in the case of Java, the
- largest common subset was the quickest and easiest way to get Java into the
- hands of developers on as many platforms as possible. If they'd gone the
- other way we'd all still be playing with console-mode apps at present.
-
- Having said that I'd have to agree that the present AWT is sadly lacking -
- but it is adequate for the point on the learning curve that many new Java
- recruits are at.
-
- Let's face it, Java has a way to go yet before its ready for the big-time
- and here's hoping that we see an alternative (Sun-approved or sourced)
- user-interface class library soon.
-
- >There is never any excuse to sacrifice functionality for portability.
- >Ever. Users demand--and rightly so--that they be able to take full
- >advantage of every dollar they've spent on their hardware and software,
- >and if they hear "well, we could do that but it wouldn't be portable"
- >from a vendor, they'll go to a vendor that will do it non-portably.
-
- In a production environment that is true - but as I mentioined above,
- nobody really believes that Java is ready for production-quality
- development yet - or if they do then they may get a few surprises :-)
-
- >As a developer, if I can earn 10 cents more by writing a non-portable
- >program, I will, without the slightest twinge of guilt.
-
- I think that the goal of total platform independence is a laudable one and
- given the choice I'd opt for a Java solution every time. Why should I be
- tied to one platform when by using the right tool I can have a much wider
- choice. If the client has performance concerns then they can throw more
- silicon at the problem. Silicon is still a *lot* cheaper than programmer
- hours and the price disparity will only widen in the future.
-
- >The only way to ensure portability, therefore, is the ensure that a
- >portable program is capable of doing everything the software needs
- >to do, and AWT doesn't even come close. The glaring omissions for
- >me are things like right-button popup menus, native video support
- >(for example, being able to query the system for its color capabilities
- >and things like monitor gamma, and then optimizing my diplay for it),
- >portable virtual keys for things like arrow and cut/paste, better
- >font metrics, and about 1000 more system properties.
-
- It's the eternal tradeoff of complexity versus functionality. I think
- you'll find that most developers will settle for less than 100%
- functionality if it means that their job is easier and the results are
- acceptable. Look at the proliferation of tools such as high-level database
- languages which are imensely powerful but at the same time force the user
- into very narrow design choices in many areas. Most programmers are more
- than happy to accept the limitations in return for the greatly enhanced
- productivity or they'd be writing in C/C++.
-
- Give the customer the choice between a $100 application that's a 90% fit
- and a $10,000 application that's a 100% fit and 99 times out of 100 you'll
- sell the $100 app. Of course there's always room for that $10,000 app and
- there will always be a job for those who create them, but I think it's
- important to realise where the mainstream markets lie.
-
- >Just one man's rant. Thanks for the soapbox :-)
-
- My turn over... next please! :-)
-
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